Talk:Nishi Nippon Pirates

Requested move 2 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus for a move. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist (talk) Слава Україні! 03:20, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

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Nishi Nippon Pirates → Nishinippon Pirates – The current title of this article was incorrect. The most reliable source is labeled "Nishinippon Pirates"[1]. None of the sources used in the article are labeled as "Nishi Nippon Pirates". Daisystinkafds (talk) 07:44, 2 February 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. Mike Cline (talk) 18:16, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Lennart97 (talk) 08:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

• @Torsodog: seems to object to this spelling, which means this move is not uncontroversial. Lennart97 (talk) 07:52, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
  • Torsodog seems to be misrepresenting the facts. He claimed that reliable sources list them under the name "Nishi Nippon Pirates". However, I checked all the sources and none of them listed them under the name "Nishi Nippon Pirates". What should I do in such a case? I am a beginner so I did not know what to do. Daisystinkafds (talk) 08:00, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
    • @Daisystinkafds: In such a case you should start a requested move, which I have now done for you here. This process will run for one week, in which editors can voice their opinion on the proposed move. Lennart97 (talk) 08:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
      • @Lennart97: I am sorry that I made a mistake in the procedure. And thank you for explaining the procedure to me. Daisystinkafds (talk) 08:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
        • No need to apologize! The procedure is working as intended :) Lennart97 (talk) 09:01, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
• Not sure why you are accusing me of misrepresenting facts. Baseball-Reference indeed lists them as "Nishinippon", however they are hardly the most reliable source on this subject matter. I've written basically this whole article and to do that I did as much research as I could on this short-lived team in both English and Japanese. There's very little written online about them period, let alone in English, but at least three published English-language sources use the space between the two words:

Johnson, D. E. (2015). Japanese Baseball: A Statistical Handbook. United States: McFarland, Incorporated, Publishers.

Aretha, D. (2016). Ichiro Suzuki: Baseball's Most Valuable Player. United States: Enslow Publishing, LLC.

New Japan. (1951). Japan: Mainichi Newspapers.

Anecdotally, the words mean West (or Western) Japan. They are two different words in English and they should have some delineation between them in English. --Torsodog^Talk 09:43, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

• • Perhaps my poor English was to blame. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. Thank you for the information. The three sources you mentioned were not listed in the article reference, so I had not checked them. The Japanese references I saw had "Nishinippon" as the English spelling. This comes from the owner of this team, the Nishinippon Shimbun (Newspapers. This is a proper noun. They call themselves "Nishinippon" in English). It is based on the following literature.

Nishinippon Shimbun (1951). 西日本新聞社史 (English translation: History of the Nishinippon Shimbun)

This is an official document published by the owner of this team. Is this a good basis for discussion? Daisystinkafds (talk) 10:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

• No problem, your English is great! Is that source a book or just a copy of the paper? What is the actual title of the work? I would love to take a look at it. Do you have a copy of it or a place I could read it? It shows the romanized name of the team as "Nishinippon Pirates"? --Torsodog^Talk 18:27, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

• • • • @Torsodog: I apologize for the delay in replying. "History of the Nishinippon Shimbun" is a book (available at the National Diet Library in Japan). However, it is probably not the material you are looking for. Last time, I was trying to show two things: 1. The name of this team comes from "西日本新聞", and 2. The English name of "西日本新聞" is "Nishinippon Shimbun". From these two facts, I concluded that the English name of this team is "Nishinippon Pirates". The English name of the baseball team itself is not clearly shown in the book. However, I realized that this alone is not sufficient evidence. This is because you have provided evidence for a different spelling. So, for the past few days, I went to a library in Japan to look up the English spelling of this team. As a result, I was able to find only one book written by a Japanese baseball historian that contains the English spelling of this team.

綱島理友/Ritomo Tsunashima (2013). 日本プロ野球ユニフォーム大図鑑 下/Nippon Professional Baseball Uniform Chronicle 3 ISBN 978-4-583-10566-6

• • • • Ritomo Tsunashima (ja:綱島理友) is a well-known baseball historian in Japan. On page 6 of this book, the history of this team is written under the title "西日本パイレーツ NISHINIPPON PIRATES". I think this is an important rationale, what do you think?--Daisystinkafds (talk) 13:54, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

• Relisting Comment: Editors should clearly indicate whether or not they Support or Oppose this title change by prefacing their evidence with Support or Oppose. As of the discussion so far there appears to be one Oppose. FYI this NGRAM is interesting
• Oppose Per WP:UE we generally use the name most commonly used in English-language sources. Per Torsodog, it seems that is the current title. The evidence presented to support the move is generally less persuasive (i.e. primary sources, non-English sources, and OR). Colin M (talk) 21:18, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.